Lilli Leaping A disc dog jump drill
Lilli’s jump has always seemed a little off to me. In her defense, this is likely a result of inconsistent disc placement. We really never considered placement of the disc in our first 6 months of throwing discs for Lilli. That and she does not seem to be an explosive leaper naturally.
The height of her jump isn’t an issue alone. It is that her form could be dangerous to her over time or even in just one bad jump. Going straight up for a disc does not lead to the safest landings. A good landing is one Lilli can run out of, or take some action, like land and go. A bad landing is a flat footed landing, a collapse, etc.
And if I make a bad toss on a vault I would prefer her not go straight up for it. So we need to address two issues. One is teaching lilli to jump properly and the other is improving our tosses.
The process of teaching Lilli to jump should be simple as Susan Salo is a jump expert who teaches people to teach dogs and horses how to jump so the knowledge is available. I’m going to improvise what little I know of her teaching and convert it to disc dog training.
About 1 of 5 jumps lilli makes for a disc is what i would call a proper jump where she gathers from behind, launches and gets her butt in the air and attacks the disc. 2 out of 5 she gets under the disc and jumps up. The other 2 discs we throw low and she chases it down without jumping.
Using the agility jumps to teach her to go for the disc by taking a stride, gathering, and lifting her back end will create muscle memory for jumping that we hope will convert into safer and beautiful jumps.
Emily
Tuesday, 20th October 2009 at 5:15 am
This was a great video! My female does the same thing. I say that she has no ‘rear end awareness’. Even when we were agility training, she had noooo idea where her butt was. She would just haul through a jump. Lol! When we practice back overs, since she doesnt pick up her back legs, she slams them into me and I have bruised ribs and arms.
She is also so smart (or so lazy) that she will go around if she see’s a way to the goal faster.
Thanks for posting this!
Em
Kristin (Doggie Manners Trainer)
Tuesday, 20th October 2009 at 8:16 am
Great Post . Another idea would be get Susan Salo DVD is great I have both volumes and I also trained all 3 of my dogs with her and her seminars . Are you all doing Susans camps in Florida ? I am which ones are you doing if you are going ?
I hope all is well take care ,
Kristin and the girls
Jason
Tuesday, 20th October 2009 at 8:28 am
@Emily Thanks for the comment. We have done a bunch of exercises with Lilli for rear end awareness that we learned from Susan Garrett. Standing on balls and steps, ladders, etc. Yesterday was the first time I ever considered modifying Lilli’s jump mechanics. You mentioned another good reason…so she stops running into us on her overs. Good point!
@ Kristin The Salo dvd’s are expensive (worth it though I am sure) I am sorta hoping to gather enough free information from the web and experts like you to get it done without discs. Though we may be able to barter with Salo, she could use a new website I think! We’ll certainly be attending the Garrett camps in Florida. All of them I hope
Kristin (Doggie Manners Trainer)
Tuesday, 20th October 2009 at 12:59 pm
Good to hear from you all. Let me know when you need a little help I am here and I be happy to help . I am attending all the camps myself spent over $1500 for this coming year and I know it will be worth it and I cant wait .
Great idea on the jumping for discs -I am still learning about disc training trying to read it and get it but dont have any interest in it though just play frisbee with the dogs to see them enjoy running =)
Ron Watson
Saturday, 24th October 2009 at 7:17 pm
Downloading the video right now… should be done in an hour or so…
@Kristin – I know a little bit about Susan Salo, that she’s awesome and has great knowledge to share…
The problem with traditional jumping techniques are that they are taken from obstacle based leaping – horses and dogs, primarily.
Leaping for a target changes the entire process. It almost isn’t the same sport – head position and trajectory are variables based upon target placement (which is also a variable) not the obstacle which is a constant.
Judging by the look of the apparatus Dre & J are using, it’s similar to what we’ve done in the past and are doing in the present (video is 30% DL… almost there…). I’m interested in seeing how you two are working this…
Peace,
Ron
Ron Watson
Saturday, 24th October 2009 at 7:39 pm
Finally!
…
That’s nice stuff…
One thing… you’ve got the angle of the disc oriented towards Lilli, pointing down. This is allowing her to simply lift her front end up and grab the disc – it’s the most efficient path.
Flip that around and have the rim facing upwards, away from Lilli, making her get up over the top of it. If she doesn’t get up, she’s got no opportunity to make the catch.
Good stuff guys! Thanks for sharing.
Peace,
Ron
Andrea
Tuesday, 27th October 2009 at 7:00 am
@Ron – Interesting thought…I hadn’t thought of switching the disc orientation…
How do we apply that to a normal disc throw? We can’t exactly throw rim down, or it would end up in the dirt. Should we adjust our throws to be more flat rather than angled towards her?
We’ve noticed a lot lately that on longer throws, she gets all the way under the disc and bites from the bottom, popping it up in the air and missing it. She never did that as a pup – just developed it over the past 6 months or so? Ideally, we’d like her to leap about 4 feet before the disc location and snatch it from the air in a nice arc. That’s why we created this jump grid. Thoughts?
Ron Watson
Tuesday, 27th October 2009 at 12:39 pm
Some people have had success with an upside down throw, as it gets the rim oriented in the fashion I’m talking about. Melissa Heeter has talked about this.
I’ve not had any luck with it myself, but have seen others who have.
I’m primarily using the rim orientation on takes and tiny tosses, just to ensure that the foundational practice promotes the skill… depending on muscle memory and good marking of behavior and consequent reinforcement to bring that foundational behavior out.
Lilli’s overpursuit…
Remember when I talked about dogs leaping because they miss? That’s what Lilli’s got going on.
Throwing those heavy discs is totally not helping.
You need to do some ‘Big Girl’ zig zags. 7-12 yards away from the handler and get her pounding a floating target with intent and a plan.
The zig zag you are doing right now is really just a pattern creation skill. Catch…reverse…Catch… reverse…
You’ve developed the pattern, so if you spread it out to about 7-12 yards, you can deliver a nice floater in her path that she must plan to leap for. She must execute that plan or miss the disc.
BTW… keep up with the jump grid. It’s important.
peace,
Ron